Hey Doc Anthony,
I was hoping I could pick your brain a bit regarding hiring a few part time folks at my practice. My thinking originally was to give a set percentage for each session that the licensed counselor performs but now for ease of payment I was thinking a flat hourly rate per session. Another agency in the state pays $30.00 per session regardless of the type. I personally never made more than $23 an hour working for someone else, but it was a full time job and offered benefits. I was considering $30 per regular session and $40 per group. In the future when we could afford it, we would then start hiring fulltime with benefits.
What are your thoughts? Any information would be greatly appreciated as this in NOT my area of expertise at all (I design programs and practices but have not been involved with HR related stuff).
I see you are burning up the pages of CT. Glad to have a guaranteed good read!
Take care and thanks again for the offer of help and guidance! (the offices should be sheet rocked in the next week or two!)
John
Hi John,
Of course I’d be happy to help.
There are really no “right” answers as it comes to this sort of thing.
Counselors do tend to prefer a flat rate over a % split, because they don’t need to worry about money coming in from clients or insurance companies. That being said, it seems that most small practices pay their licensed clinicians on a split. For independent contractors, a typical split is often 60%/40%, in the licensed clinician’s favor. Some practices pay more, and some pay less.
And some–like Thriveworks–pay their clinicians as employees (not independent contractors) and absorb a 7.65% payroll tax in addition to compensation fess paid. And offer benefits. Ouch. Perhaps, instead of looking at what you pay per appointment, it would be best to look at whether someone could make a good living working with you.
That’s going to keep your practice competitive, and help you to retain a good team. Losing a clinician is REALLY HARD on a practice, so you want to make sure that your clinicians are not going to depart to pursue better compensation elsewhere.
I have encountered too many practices that lose their best clinicians every couple years or so because they pay under market rate. These practices can recruit new clinicians, but most of them–at some point–decide to leave. This can hinder a practice’s growth and long term success. That said, I see just as many practices pay their clinicians too much (typically over 60% as employees, or over 65% as contractors). These practices never seem to have any money to grow the practice, because too much of their revenues are tied up in staff compensation.
I hope this helps John!!
–Anthony
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This is in response to Dan..I read your response to the original post and its apparent that you might need a refresher in appropriate and professional etiquette. Your tone, insinuations and assumptions were quite offensive and I’m not even the person you were targeting. I felt horrible for the person and I dont even know them. Its clear that you went into attack mode but appear pretty off base, in my opinion.
First of all….I’ve also been doing my own research regarding hiring, average pay, etc recently and the person did not give enough information for you to make all of the assumptions you did, let alone the personal attacks you made. Continuously saying mental health professionals of the past (like you), and then following up with whatever insult and assumption you followed up with is quite rude and I highly doubt you know much about this person or anyone else you are are bashing left and right throughout your reply. If anyone is to make some assumptions, I think its fair to say that I am curious as to how you are with clients or as a supervisor if your communication skills in this post are anything like how you talk to people.
I typically would not respond to something like this but as a professional, I felt compelled to do so because it is unfortunate that someone LIKE YOU is throwing out insult after insult and apparently feels high and mighty above everyone else in the profession.
Please do everyone in the profession a favor as well as any potential clients and learn how to communicate effectively without being so rude and condescending.
Hello all,
Refusing fair adequate pay to a licensed professional counselor (i.e. $20 or $40 an hour) will get you unemployed faster than you want to admit. You stated “I personally never made more than $23 an hour working for someone else” maybe you worked for someone two decades ago or maybe you’re live in a bubble but $20 or $40 an hour is not what a current up-to-date mental health professional paid six figures in training for. You might argue that as a mental health professional we always knew we are not going to be rich. However, as a professional we will never get rich off $180 an hour let alone the pathetic wage you quoted. At $20 or $40 an hour you will get a poor professional who delivers poor care and a poor product. You already know this as you’re a business owner. You feel you have social privilege and/or you feel safe about your chose as you operate by the letter of the law. I’ll remind you that in Psychology, Psychiatry, and counseling the law in the moral and ethical floor. I don’t know your motivations and I really don’t care. However, licensed independent counselors like myself got tired of behavior like yours years ago. What will happen (just like anything else) is you will deliver a substandard product as professional service means professional pay and at $20 or $40 an hour you’re just not going to get a professional that consumers expect or want to pay for. You would be hard pressed to get an intern at that wage (by the way interns get paid now). I pay my neighbor’s son who mows my lawn more than $40 an hour and you’re telling this forum that you intend to pay a professional with independent licensure less!?! Further, current newly licensed mental health professionals have more training, are more tolerant, and are better equipped than professionals of the past. We were required to obtain extremely more training then mental health professionals of the past, we have developed, implemented, and improved treatment modals. Whereas mental health professionals of the past basically lobby for a grandfather clause in their state in order to keep the privilege of professional licensure. The point I want to make is mental health professionals of the past (like you) are the reason why mental health is so poor in American communities currently. Professionals like you have cut corner for so long (i.e. feeling it’s your privilege to offer substandard pay to a licensed professional) that it took professionals like me just to pull the profession back from extinction. Quoting the substandard rate above is all the proof any professional needs to see to determine you first seek to not be accountable, then you seek reimbursement, delivery and quality care is not a concern to you.
Then you got this person who stated ” Counselors do tend to prefer a flat rate over a % split, because they don’t need to worry about money coming in from clients or insurance companies.” Here’s a business owner who doesn’t communicate with his employees. A common lie newly trained mental health professionals are used to hearing is we will receive less pay if we bill insurance companies versus seek clients who pay out of pocket each session. It is clear the % pays more and just so your privilege understands as a professional we always want fair compensation (which is clearly not the amount you quoted above). It is extremely more profitable to deal with insurance companies rather then with community mental health organization, or business owners like you. Further, you stated “they don’t need to worry about money coming in from clients or insurance companies.” Your privilege DOES NOT mean you can dictate what I or other highly trained mental health professionals need or do not need. It is well known that professionals of the past (like you) lie, mislead, and slander leaving my generation of counselors to sort out the mess we didn’t make or endorse. Just like any business you can do the right thing and profit for years or you can cut corners (like you suggest above) and real, highly trained professionals like me will gladly take what you have.
Chow 😉