Hi, here is the deal, in NY, it’s 1500 hours, California has the highest standards in almost everything educational, and the license is 3k hours. That’s quite a difference. It is unpaid, and most practices don’t want to give you more than 10 hours a week. I have garnered 1k children hours, then was in an accident and was planning on moving back to NY. Does anyone else know if these hours can be transferred from state to state? Also, I have also studied, ferociously, another 12k hours, in scientific research, while recovering from my injury, so, I would not jump to conclusions so quickly about people practicing under faster licenses. My therapist said that the Ph.D program, was just fancier letters herself. Every person is unique and there are tons of crap therapists who have completed the full enchilada. I am interested in helping women over come injuries, as that is what I have survived, so, it would be very niche and I only know of one therapist doing this, and she costs a fortune and is lousy and has done nothing to raise awareness about these man-made diseases that put women in the ground. I looked into life coaching and could not stand the way they spoke, etc I am one of the few students who passed the neuropsych test Ph.D eval course in my cohort. I watched the life coach video and it was so remedial, that I could not take it. I am not sure what my other avenues are, as like I said, I am hoping to move back to NY, and don’t want my 1k hours to go to waste. Any advice? Thanks

Being a shoulder to lean on and an ear to hear do not require degrees nor insurance. Can listening to someone’s problem be harmful? I suppose only if they convince you their reality is more real 😉

TMI; Showing loose boundaries. “I didn’t want to wait another 4 years to practice”. Yes, why waste time to get educated and then spend 2 years with a limited license while you are supervised and hone skills when you can just be passionate and jump right into helping people with complex trauma.

I have a friend in the Santa Cruz mountains whose house parcels are each half acre. I visit her a couple times a week. Every time I’m there roughly around 8pm the yelling starts. It’s something you can’t imagine until you hear it. It was at the point I asked is this for real? My friend chuckled and said yes but it will only last a couple of minutes. She said the funny thing is they are both family marriage counselors. Unbelievable.:)

scott not true as long as you are credentialed with NPI which verification to be paid by certain insurances. nutrition and even fitness professionals which include therapy are. some have degrees in psychology and many other social sciences. I honestly think the traditional schooling when you probally have had is just not working anymore. we need more energy medicine counselors and professionals. the kids today are called crystal kids. the tradional does not work anymore. most of the time these services never give you tools just listen pick their nose. they have no answers .. you don’t want to dredge up the past you need to cut the cord. the problem with your education is you ask ” what is wrong with you” and lets fix it. It is time to ask what is right with you now lets promote it. My motto there are 54 divisions in psychology. There are tons of historical resources I can give you when it comes to this. Anthony Robbins is not licensed…. Billy Gragham wasn’t licensed Dr John Gray venus and mars. never licensed. in fact is PhD was unaccredited. he studied in the science of creative intelligence.later got honary. but he is a memver of the ACA. in part his work cause I know someone who did internship years back and he even took her suggestion for a later book.

A lot of have the same education and probaly more than you. I license is just another way at be allowed to practice like when you register your business with the secretary of state. It is in purpose to fund the state to practice. Like when you open up a bar and grill you have to get a license to sell liquor. but if you are online practicing and doing telehealth. and have the credentials did the internship and such. why should you have to get a license in every state you deal with. If you get the right protection of disclaimer. You are just as. explain then why when government setup the crisis line and alcohol lines and pain drug addicts lines most of them are volunteers even the suicide lines. so explain that/ They are not licensed.

The traditional way is not working. licensure is just another way to get money. none of the tradition social work have training in energy medical issues. PTSD no one has training and most of the time they don’t give you tools. I honestly think this site is great but got very disappointed in the counseling …I don’t want lsw or lpc I want medical energy practiioner. nice if they have Ph..D the thing is most people want drugs. if they had a family provider who already prescribes and then they start sessions with this. but the thing is those who are gifted in this field online or telehealth they do such amazing healing online and over the phone. they can read your energy fields and help you understand and have holistic background and if those who are doing medical marijuana should be dealing with energy workers.
and now some of them are creditialed to get paid by insurance. I really like this cause they provide benefits and pay well. and continue training. just wish they had energy medical practioners on here.

Please DELETE this comment

Surely you don’t need a license to evaluate evidence?

Yes….. Love this and to the “real therapist” Yes, I would rather go to the man who has had cancer for advice, rather than a doctor that just wants money and doesn’t understand what it’s truly like. You, the “real therapist” seem to have a lot of work left to do on yourself. You’re just mad that someone is better than you with less time put in, or is it the wrong time you put in. Sounds like you have no idea what your are doing and want the privilege over the need. Please be in it for the right reason, yes, I have my masters in psychology.

There is natural intelligence out there for instances Albert Einstein!!
I can go on and on about the law of attraction and energy you molded professionals are to closed minded and following molded people you can never wrap your minds around. I can guarantee i have had a more positive effect on more lives then you can imagine.
And can i suggest learning more about negative energy and the attraction it can provoke. For instance if you professionals would have been supportive and understand open minded you probably could have even gained some clients here. But your negative and unprofessional response on here led you down a serous path of negative attention just read what free will people had to say about you and your close minded selfs. Put your pride and school aside and you might truly learn from people them selfs about what they need just read all the posts on here from the minds of people that are not of the same mold.
To sum this up you saying you need a degree to help people in a professional way indicates your our only option in that case most people wont seek help. But let people be free too choose who they want to help and if just one life is saved then its a no brainier! Let people who have a natural ability to help people help and do what they love. If your not natural at it then seek education needed.

“personal education from research that I did on my own” That’s a huge red flag.

No one doubts your compassion, but compassion alone doesn’t make you qualified to truly understand and treat psychological problems. The trouble with the internet era is that it’s given everyone the feeling that they have wisdom and skills that they actually don’t. I see it every day in various message boards, laypeople and ‘coaches’ tossing around concepts as if they were experts, and making assertions that are categorically untrue. It’s for good reason that formal education from regionally accredited schools is required in every professional license category. Who do I want as my heart surgeon: Someone who ‘taught themselves’ by reading random books and articles or someone who went through 7 years of formal schooling and also had to practice their skills under the observation of supervisors until they proved they were competent?

The fact that you believe you are, in your own words, *more qualified* than _most_ practitioners with a degree reveals that you probably also lack the requisite self-awareness that being a clinician requires. No one here is bashing coaches; what they’re doing is advocating for the protection of clients, who are people in a very vulnerable position.

The challenge getting through to these people is that they are not educated about how they harm clients. A huge part of therapy training is what NOT to do. I have watched people without training “do therapy,” coaching, whatever, in areas of mental health and addiction where they are not qualified. I have seen harm done.

The “It happened to me so I know stuff” doesn’t work in virtually ANY OTHER FIELD. Think about that. “My car broke down, so I know how to fix cars.” “I had a computer virus, so I know how to manage computers.” “I fell and broke my hip, so I know how to fix hips.”

It’s a self-serving motivation. In each story, the case is “I did what I wanted to do, convinced I was right, without any really checks against my ego.” And this is the problem. How can that motivation actually be in service to someone else, when it is so very clearly in service to self? If you don’t see that, use your logic in every other scenario. If your qualification is “my car broke down and I like to help people,” go ahead and offer to fix someone’s car as if you know what you’re talking about.

Puleeze….. Seems that the degree herd is triggered. Live and let live. Perhaps there was no time in the rush to get your degrees to do personal work which is evidenced by the anger, rudeness, and jealousy here on this thread. You are as good as the personal work you have done. Education is important to a certain degree, but personal work, training, etc., is just a valuable if not more so. AND it is not the same as a friend having heart surgery and then being able to practice as a cardiologist.
I have a Masters degree from Columbia and what I learned there doesn’t even compare to some of the outside training I have done, and the inner work I still do. If you are triggered by this, than beware of the triggers that will happen with your clients if you don’t start doing your personal work!

This is interesting. All the so-called “professionals” on here losing their marbles, and even using demeaning language like “sweetie”. Makes me think some of you skipped the Carl Jung Shadow Self Integration portion of psychology. Maybe you’re triggered that you spent years in schooling and are in huge debt? Maybe you feel insecure in your practice and ability to help others, so you feel threatened by someone you think has less clinical and educational experience? All I can say is, I wouldn’t let any of you treat me based on what I’m seeing here. This is a public forum and none of you are acting like professional mental health workers.

Amanda, Laura, and Leah…

Like others on this thread, I hold an MS in Mental Health Counseling. Big deal, tho, if I am so inflexible that I discount others who clearly have the passion to help others. As long as people don’t lie and say they are licensed when they are not, there is no law that says they can’t help others. And even get paid for it!

Being able to bill insurance isn’t everything. Personally I prefer to not bill insurance. It’s a matter of patient privacy. Even though we have laws built-in to protect our medical history, once the data is in an insurance company’s database, the client has no idea what they may end up doing with it. Just a fact.

And I also wanted to touch on your thoughts about currently licensed therapists having inferiority complexes…It’s really not that simple. Over the last 10 to 15 years there has been a movement in the mental health fields to uplift and validate this profession.

Overall, you will find us therapists/counselors a great bunch of folk. We have worked exceptionally hard to obtain our education and the many thousands of hours that go into licensing. Consider that we have something to protect, and this is why some of us may come off sounding threatened.

Each one of us is valid and everyone of us can help others licensed or not. If a life coach can help a person get through major obstacles and over blocks in their lives by setting goals and doing worksheets, well that is one less miserable in the world. That is a beautiful thing.

Hallelujah – yes, Amanda – thank you! – can’t believe the nastiness of some of the comments on here. Seek education and degrees first because of what you will learn, and only secondarily because of licensing doors that get opened. People with degrees and licenses will always be at a professional and economic advantage. Be humble and be kind, people. I’m an MD, by the way, so I know all about putting in time, sweat, and tears. I work in primary care. I don’t think anyone can claim with a straight face that the licensed professional world has things handled just fine. The world needs all the help we can get.

No one said you have to go, that is an excuse. Take responsibility for your actions. The girls Laura and Leah never spoke un-kind, but it is appalling when one reads the so-called professionals call these women disrespectful, ignorant, wrong, and even dumb.

Your commitment has nothing to do with arresting and prosecuting a person out of contempt. It is no-one fault for your choices.

I only ask if this is perhaps an inferior complex because one would assume Psychologist’s having all that time in school plus license to practise might have worked on transcendence.

Either way, at least admit to yourself that no one is perfect. Psychology is not flawless. If not perfect then it is more harm to try and shut down all other practices. People are not stupid. They choose who they want to help them based on what their needs are.
If they choose you great, if not, have you no shame?

If I need heart surgery, I am not going to ask my heart surgeon if he has HAD heart surgery. I am going to ask him his education and training to DO heart surgery.

As someone with a lot of lived experience in loss and trauma and a clinical degree, it is my clinical degree that allowed me to understand that my personal experience in many cases was a HINDRANCE to my work with clients. It provides a wonderful point of empathy and connection. It is what drew me to the field. But it is always what limits us in understanding treatment. There is a tendency to think “what helped me” is important, when of course it isn’t. Often what those rely on lived experience know is only what helped them. They prioritize that and disregarrd the rest. In fact, they often don’t know what they don’t know, which is scariest. I was very well trained with an undergraducate degree with certifications after for coaching and case management, and when I went on to get a postgraducate degree and actually learned neuroscience and neuropsychology and clinical practice approaches, I was horried to realize the places where coaches and many with lived experience asre so well intention, but in actuality doing so much more harm than good. I read a great post somewhere that I can’t find now, but will come back and post if I can turn it up, about a life coach who became a therapist. She went back to reflext on her time and social network as a coach and observed that there was a deep level of narcissism involved in the field – the idea that one’s personal experience alone is significant and meaningful enough that it has imparted wisdom that extends beyond the self, without doing any professional learning. Her point was not that experience doesn’t have it’s place, but that it takes a terrifying level of self-involvement to think it extends to anything meaningful beyond yourself.

The problem with this arguement, with those who are still coaches, is that until one goes on for further education, they don’t know what they don’t know. I certainly didn’t.

This is a great reply to those using aggressive language. Thank you.

Howard well said

real therapist on July 10, 2019 at 2:54 pm
Lori, you are very ignorant and disrespectful to all of us who has actually acquired a degree throughout MANY YEARS of graduate school. Is like saying…. I prefer to be treated by my neighbor who had also had cancer, than going to a doctor who is specialize in the field.
All these “under-title degree” people are there to devalue our career and they will NEVER be able to treat you in the, the same line of expertise and knowledge that can ONLY be acquired throughout graduate school. Inform yourself, before making a dumb decision!

Sounds more bitter than professional, maybe a self check on your own thoughts and answering before you are quick to throw an insult may help. I did attend school for many years and realized my own experiences have helped people find what they need. Sometimes you DO just need someone who’s “been through some things” to help you and that’s from growing up in a neighborhood where you may or may not find that beacon of hope. It’s somewhat true that a lot of this starts in the home or who you are around, crabs in a bucket for example. Maybe you have the education but simply learned nothing.

I did like this:

Do you support them name calling? Did they learn to express themselves from the I while earning their therapy degree? “I feel disrespected by you” rather than calling me disrespectful? (I use myself because I agree with and practice as Lori does.)
Did they forget? Why did they forget? Is it because they are emotional about what was shared? If so, why are they emotional?
I work among clinicians. The best way for me to help clinicians understand what I do is to practice with them what I do. As exhibited as above. Learning happens everywhere.
“Yes, Jeff, I like what you do and will pay you more than other Peers for what you do as long as you are supervised by a licensed clinician.” Really?
A license doesn’t mean the person isn’t causing harm. Nor does it mean a person without your kind of license is causing it.

Why because I too work with clinicians and have heard many say maybe he/she just needs to work it out on their own and they will just offer support or critic as necessary, after all your client is merely paying for an ear to listen and that my friends is actually free.

When talk therapy wasn’t working for me, I went to see a hypnotherapist. I was able to overcome trauma, anxiety and depression that had been plaguing me for years. There are therapists out there that are not licensed. Many of these therapists are just as committed to helping people as licensed therapists, maybe even more so because they don’t have degrees to hide behind. It is their reputation and referrals for which they are counting on.

I am surprised by the comments on this post by people claiming to have degrees, yet speak unintelligibly and some mysteriously don’t post their name. Also, if you feel the need to write in CAPS, you’ve already lost your integrity. Didn’t you learn APA style of writing in school? It confirms to me that having a degree and license as a therapist is a privilege. It also does not prove that someone is qualified to be a good healer of the mind. But it does prove they, their parents or someone else paid a lot of money for them to go to school. How lovely for them to have that opportunity and/or privilege. But don’t be naive in thinking it automatically makes them a good and effective healer of one’s thoughts and mind.. Healers and counselors come in many forms. Be open and mindful when looking for the right one for you.

I haven’t sold anything, and have been reviewed as not having a painting instinct; not being able to visualize in my minds eye. I don’t seem to have “talent”. I’m not giving up though! I’m going to go back and get my Doctorates, then no one will be able to dispute my true calling.

I have a belief that, on any given day, out of a hundred people doing a job, only 10/10% have the technical knowledge AND the desire and motivation to exert their full effort. There are the inexperienced. They are gung ho! Wide eyed innocence, disputing advice from the pros who aren’t doing it “correctly”. If only people acted/reacted like they’re supposed to, like the case studies in the syllabus!

As opposed to: the experienced person who knows the ins and outs, who to call and when, the computer shortcut/software workaround, the person they know will pick up the phone Friday night, that will do a favor for only you.

So some form and level of burn out infects the knowledgeable host. 1. Acquired disdain for their clients (ER Nurses, waitresses). 2. Disillusionment. You could help them but what’s the point? They don’t follow advice. 3. Boredom, stir crazy, semi-comatose/lethargic. 4. Outside stressors, chemical dependency…focus slowly shifts from client to the time clock, or to indeed.com.

Counseling, in the actual JOB, falls ridiculously over into the intuition catagory. I’ve obviously ran off the road less traveled at some point. In my experience, to UNDERSTAND addiction, suicide level depression, victim of physical/sexual abuse…you have to have experienced something. The counselors that are just too well adjusted, by DEFINITION, can’t experientially understand. Within the big 3, there’s crossover understanding. If you have wrist scars (literal or figurative), you can understand the despair, hopelessness, and maybe some truth in what needs to take place to come out the other side. Relationships attempted (romantic, work relationships, etc) following the inherited malignant family blueprint is a universal experience that most clients understand – insecurity, self sabotage, anger, isolation. (They leave home with this malignant family tumor, and over time it metastasizes, to some degree, to all other areas. Step one – stop the bleeding.)

Besides not relating to where the client ‘s at related to f’d history combined with whatever else they’ve self inflicted into the equation (2nd DWI, lost custody, spouse, financial), they can’t see the games the client secretly wishes someone would call them on. They can’t step back and see the big picture…the one the counselor with the blotchy background has already painted.

All this being said, either counselor, of course, can get have success. Being up front about your cursed happy childhood and the two beers you drink per month works. If counselor can convey he/she really cares, kudos (rare). Ultimately a motivated client that wants to actually CHANGE, that’s willing to get honest, do the work, yada, covers a multitude of deficiencies. Ok, great, I can relate on a core level. Doesn’t necessarily mean I can do the 45 minutes week in week out well. The non-MS counselors would seem to have less familiarity with psych meds and DSM level diagnoses/psychosis…may come in handy to do the job.

Thank you for posting this!

This is was posted below from a licensed mental health professional:

Do you support them name calling? Did they learn to express themselves from the I while earning their therapy degree? “I feel disrespected by you” rather than calling me disrespectful? (I use myself because I agree with and practice as Lori does.)
Did they forget? Why did they forget? Is it because they are emotional about what was shared? If so, why are they emotional?

I work among clinicians. The best way for me to help clinicians understand what I do is to practice with them what I do. As exhibited as above. Learning happens everywhere.
“Yes, Jeff, I like what you do and will pay you more than other Peers for what you do as long as you are supervised by a licensed clinician.” Really?

A license doesn’t mean the person isn’t causing harm. Nor does it mean a person without your kind of license is causing it.

After Apples came Androids. After Fords came Volkswagens. After Psychologists came Clinical Social Workers. After Clinical Social Workers came Peers. After Peers came people who just want to connect and feel empowered with People who can skillfully facilitate this.

I mind my own business, both professional and personal not because I don’t care what happens to others but because I that’s the only thing I can control.

Why do you feel the need to control what I do? Are you worried about my causing harm to others? If so, why don’t you get to know what I do rather than rather than working toward legislation to control people like me?

If I didn’t know better I’d allow myself to feel divided by your viewpoint. I’m done with that. What do we have in common? Don’t know? Are people like me important enough to ask and find out? I think you are so …

From what I’ve shared, what do you want to know more about?

Oh, here is the post that prompted me to reply:

A real therapist on July 10, 2019 at 2:54 pm
Lori, you are very ignorant and disrespectful to all of us who has actually acquired a degree throughout MANY YEARS of graduate school. Is like saying…. I prefer to be treated by my neighbor who had also had cancer, than going to a doctor who is specialize in the field.

All these “under-title degree” people are there to devalue our career and they will NEVER be able to treat you in the, the same line of expertise and knowledge that can ONLY be acquired throughout graduate school. Inform yourself, before making a dumb decision!

HOW DARE YOU! HOW DARE YOU TELL SOMEONE ELSE WHAT THEY SHOULD OR SHOULDN’T BE! WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE MISSY? You wanna start something? READ MY NAME: Rev. Dr. AJ Eakin, Msc.D., Ph.D., D.Div.
I agree with David! He knows what he’s doing. You don’t. You should look into being a criminal defense lawyer who protects child molesters because if you can justify DUIs by saying that everyone makes mistakes then you are saying is “nobodies perfect.”
What if a person was sober but just as negligent? Don’t have to be under the influence to make mistakes. So what about people who are just carelessly reckless? What excuse have you to justify their rights to risk the lives of others?
NOBODY WHO IS RESPONSIBLE WILL EVER GET BEHIND THE WHEEL! If they are responsible they will make every effort to at best, sleep it off while parked. But the minute that key goes into the ignition.., EVERYTHING THAT HAPPENS from that moment on…, that driver is 100% responsible for. PERIOD!

CHECK YOURSELF!

All talk